tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6297413898275266606.post1647139441002419572..comments2024-03-27T18:15:59.096+08:00Comments on Economics Malaysia: Transforming Educationhishamhhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06265308095732759923noreply@blogger.comBlogger36125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6297413898275266606.post-63747616007201263962012-06-19T15:21:23.567+08:002012-06-19T15:21:23.567+08:00i think "conceptualised it wrongly" and ...i think "conceptualised it wrongly" and "fuzzy objective" is not the same thing.<br /><br />i think pr conceptualise affirmative action rightly but without a very concrete objective yet.<br /><br />i think....:)HuaYongnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6297413898275266606.post-31013655630450022422012-06-18T09:54:03.273+08:002012-06-18T09:54:03.273+08:00HuaYong,
If you have a fuzzy objective, you get l...HuaYong,<br /><br />If you have a fuzzy objective, you get less than desirable (and sometimes perverse) results. The author is arguing for defining what we want to achieve and designing policies around those objectives, rather than the blanket approach we are taking now.<br /><br />AA will always be around in one form or another. For example poverty eradication, irrespective of race, is still AA hishamhhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06265308095732759923noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6297413898275266606.post-37647319198610691952012-06-15T16:34:56.578+08:002012-06-15T16:34:56.578+08:00"they have conceptualised it wrongly."
..."they have conceptualised it wrongly."<br /><br />wrong? what is the purpose of affirmative action? i don't quite grasp what exactly is the point of the article, do away with aa? i think theoretically need base policy make sense in the context of aa, so how the concept is wrong?HuaYongnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6297413898275266606.post-36998756930333885512012-06-12T08:26:14.737+08:002012-06-12T08:26:14.737+08:00Thanks Greg, damn good article.Thanks Greg, damn good article.hishamhhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06265308095732759923noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6297413898275266606.post-14220339223582694802012-06-12T02:13:50.041+08:002012-06-12T02:13:50.041+08:00A cogent analysis on affirmative action in Malaysi...A cogent analysis on affirmative action in Malaysia, and why both PR and BN will not be able to resolve it - they have conceptualised it wrongly. <br /><br />http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2012/06/11/malaysia-after-regime-change-lee-hwok-aun/Greg Lopezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03717331115173935202noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6297413898275266606.post-58820637802652895692012-05-31T08:48:20.553+08:002012-05-31T08:48:20.553+08:00i believe most are aware that aa has a cost, the c...i believe most are aware that aa has a cost, the complaint is mainly on where to strike a balance. meritocracy is some sort of myth, however that is also the most practical approach for the poor/rural folk to move upward through achievement in education.<br /><br />i am okay with pre school for rural folk, but would that solve the quality at primary level, i doubt it. i dont agree one policy HuaYongnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6297413898275266606.post-57490930619028200942012-05-30T15:40:19.848+08:002012-05-30T15:40:19.848+08:00@HishamH,
Agreed. Maybe this would be the beginni...@HishamH,<br /><br />Agreed. Maybe this would be the beginning of the end of AA. My aim was not to disagree with you, it was just to stir a debate on AA. I just wanted to raise the awareness that AA has its cost and that everyone must realise that it is not the solution to our problems of racial inequality (if anything it probably polarizes the society even more as, like protectionism, this oftenSYnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6297413898275266606.post-36689872706332168822012-05-30T13:40:57.824+08:002012-05-30T13:40:57.824+08:00SY,
Why do you think I'm harping on pre-schoo...SY,<br /><br />Why do you think I'm harping on pre-school education? That's one of the key areas of differentiation in the urban/rural, Bumi/non-Bumi divide. Whether its couched in terms of improving educational outcomes or reducing racial disparities, this is a necessary first step to abolishing AA in education and to their credit it's something the government is moving forward with.hishamhhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06265308095732759923noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6297413898275266606.post-44303784842195236062012-05-29T22:17:21.197+08:002012-05-29T22:17:21.197+08:00@HishamH,
Would agree 100% with your analysis. An...@HishamH,<br /><br />Would agree 100% with your analysis. And yes, I agree with you that this would (hands down) be the best solution if implemented well and I am all for this: "If you equalise educational opportunity and environment right at the start" <br /><br />But my stance is that AA doesn't solve our educational issues. The nation seems to think that by having a quota system,SYnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6297413898275266606.post-46347923035702780782012-05-29T14:52:27.035+08:002012-05-29T14:52:27.035+08:00@SY
It's not that I don't believe abolish...@SY<br /><br />It's not that I don't believe abolishing AA wouldn't be desirable. But from my point of view, that would actually cause more problems than it solves, if that was the sole measure being looked at.<br /><br />The number one factor underlying student educational outcomes isn't ability, it's the parents socio-economic background, particularly the mother's. hishamhhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06265308095732759923noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6297413898275266606.post-35037188296984337622012-05-28T15:46:05.965+08:002012-05-28T15:46:05.965+08:00You are on a roll in terms of misinterpreting my w...You are on a roll in terms of misinterpreting my words. I did not champion a quota system. What happened to your band 7.5 IELTS? =p (also, a spell check before you submit would be recommended) It doesn’t matter if 90% is bumi in the end. What matters is that 100% of the guys on scholarship (and in universtities) are the best of the country. <br /><br />Just to add. Best of the country based on SYnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6297413898275266606.post-41255829372274709402012-05-28T15:41:53.419+08:002012-05-28T15:41:53.419+08:00I don’t have any data but I base my theory on the ...I don’t have any data but I base my theory on the simple notion that there is no need for affirmative action if they do. If they by virtue deserve a scholarship based purely on merits, it takes away the need for the Affirmative action. “Siapa makan cili, dia yang terasa pedas”. If you think you deserved it, maybe you wouldn’t be so defensive in the first place. And since you were a MARA scholar. SYnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6297413898275266606.post-56148885849199708802012-05-28T15:41:25.556+08:002012-05-28T15:41:25.556+08:00@Anon,
I did not make any assumption that 85% of...@Anon, <br /><br />I did not make any assumption that 85% of Mara students fail. You have a penchant for putting words to my comments and it is not fair. Again, I will reiterate that Mara students are not stupid and never did I at any point discredit them for what they have achieved. I just question if they are the best of the country and if they are (like how you would imply), why do we need theSYnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6297413898275266606.post-48933929947857880622012-05-28T15:39:42.352+08:002012-05-28T15:39:42.352+08:00@Hishamh,
“So to be clear, I believe your basic h...@Hishamh,<br /><br />“So to be clear, I believe your basic hypothesis is correct - AA of any form, under economic theory, does result in inefficiency and less than optimal outcomes. Where I depart from your opinion is that I don't believe abolishing AA for university entrance or scholarships would necessarily raise education standards for the system as a whole.”<br /><br />I concur with this SYnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6297413898275266606.post-86994322939742984222012-05-26T21:53:29.756+08:002012-05-26T21:53:29.756+08:00Education is a lifeline to enable the poor to con...Education is a lifeline to enable the poor to contribute more to society and earn more to get themselves out of their cycle of life. It thus has a social function beyond meritocracy.<br /><br />However to sustain such a social function, it will be surprising if both government and economists don't realize someone has to pay for it. <br /><br />That's where competition comes in to raise wallahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17580252352785040456noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6297413898275266606.post-2203826900097935092012-05-26T18:55:29.326+08:002012-05-26T18:55:29.326+08:00SY,
You are making assumption again that 85 perce...SY,<br /><br />You are making assumption again that 85 percent of mara ausmat studemts failed, what o meant by top 15 percent is thatntheir tetiary entramce exam results must be above 85 meaning they are in the top 15 percent of the whole ausmat students including australians and international students, i took my spm in 2003, i was among 2000 who got straight As, those years straight A students Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6297413898275266606.post-88122758863362770542012-05-25T11:47:03.119+08:002012-05-25T11:47:03.119+08:00Oops, sorry HuaYong, I confused you with Shihong.Oops, sorry HuaYong, I confused you with Shihong.hishamhhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06265308095732759923noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6297413898275266606.post-42570782619892188232012-05-25T10:28:15.305+08:002012-05-25T10:28:15.305+08:00Hisham,
Hmmm I haven’t made any comment on this ...Hisham, <br /><br />Hmmm I haven’t made any comment on this thread yet. I don’t quite agree with the pre-school thingy because what I notice is that most urban kids from standard 1-3 seem not that interested to redo what they already did in pre-school, is that healthy? But I have no idea if that is the case with rural kids.<br /><br />I dont think VS perform better if overall evaluation is HuaYongnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6297413898275266606.post-6567312011636286432012-05-25T09:51:40.360+08:002012-05-25T09:51:40.360+08:00@SY
Observer's sentiments and experience larg...@SY<br /><br />Observer's sentiments and experience largely echo mine. I never felt I was entitled to anything - if I had any feelings on the subject at all back then, it was probably guilt. Nor was I alone in that.<br /><br />So to be clear, I believe your basic hypothesis is correct - AA of any form, under economic theory, does result in inefficiency and less than optimal outcomes. Where I hishamhhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06265308095732759923noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6297413898275266606.post-668511694277047972012-05-25T00:20:06.331+08:002012-05-25T00:20:06.331+08:00in terms of university rankingsin terms of university rankingsSYnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6297413898275266606.post-92160873154299915632012-05-25T00:19:27.810+08:002012-05-25T00:19:27.810+08:00Also Anon,
"AUSMAT example which i was a apr...Also Anon,<br /><br />"AUSMAT example which i was a aprt requires us to be in the top 15 percent, others achieved less are notballwed to go overseas"<br /><br />What happens to the rest of the 85%? From my experiences in Germany, at least half of the 85% gets sent on a full scholarship to local Malaysian universities. So, its no wonder we are where we are.SYnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6297413898275266606.post-38161616697188188282012-05-25T00:10:35.057+08:002012-05-25T00:10:35.057+08:00Anon,
Now just to clarify my stance. I did not sa...Anon,<br /><br />Now just to clarify my stance. I did not say Mara students are stupid, I just said that the lack of competition is causing a dilution in educational outcomes, I.e. students settle for second upper instead of trying to get first class. Maybe second upper is what we need but I think that the anon example does potentially highlight the paradox in Malaysian education should we want SYnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6297413898275266606.post-51312506486338843552012-05-24T19:18:39.611+08:002012-05-24T19:18:39.611+08:00SY,
Aurely ypu must realize that to get into west...SY,<br /><br />Aurely ypu must realize that to get into westen unuversitues, they put rigorous entry requirwments for A levels, australians matriculation and intemational baccalaureate, even MARA make it compulsory for its SPC students to get high grades in A levels, AUSMAT example which i was a aprt requires us to be in the top 15 percent, others achieved less are notballwed to go overseas. In Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6297413898275266606.post-51213936529611880292012-05-24T14:24:29.550+08:002012-05-24T14:24:29.550+08:00Observer,
I'm not denying that there is compe...Observer,<br /><br />I'm not denying that there is competition, I just think maybe it wasn't enough. But I don't know and maybe I am wrong as my personal experiences may be quite biased. My sincere apologies if I offended anyone's feelings.<br /><br />Nonetheless, I agree wholeheartely with this statement: "I'm all for meritocracy, but with a balanced needs-based SYnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6297413898275266606.post-85242202832424587962012-05-24T01:26:59.585+08:002012-05-24T01:26:59.585+08:00SY,
In the first place, I will admit I am one of ...SY,<br /><br />In the first place, I will admit I am one of the scholars who went to UK and live in Mara hostels. However, I have to politely disagree on your point about there being no competition, no interview, no need to apply. The scholarships are limited, and so are the admissions into local uni. Altho there is a quota, only the best gets in and it's simply wrong to assume every Malay observernoreply@blogger.com