tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6297413898275266606.post4729888205756746341..comments2024-03-27T18:15:59.096+08:00Comments on Economics Malaysia: Documenting Income Inequality: Malaysian Household Incomes 1970-2009hishamhhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06265308095732759923noreply@blogger.comBlogger28125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6297413898275266606.post-22047726510543962832012-07-02T23:23:12.056+08:002012-07-02T23:23:12.056+08:00@anon 6.32
That's what the data from SSM says...@anon 6.32<br /><br />That's what the data from SSM says.hishamhhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06265308095732759923noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6297413898275266606.post-63351844141592241602012-07-02T18:32:34.018+08:002012-07-02T18:32:34.018+08:00Dear Hisham..
Ur estimate of 20% Bumi,40% NonBumis...Dear Hisham..<br />Ur estimate of 20% Bumi,40% NonBumis & 30% Foreign of the OS..Govt hv zero?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6297413898275266606.post-80082931004323704612012-07-02T15:49:16.378+08:002012-07-02T15:49:16.378+08:00Jason, with respect to commodity prices, I think t...Jason, with respect to commodity prices, I think the causality runs the other way. With the Plaza Accord depreciating the value of the USD, Malaysian commodity exporters were hit with lower terms of trade while at the same time substantially increasing the incentives for Japanese manufacturers to shift production overseas.<br /><br />Couple that with Look East policies and a deliberate shift hishamhhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06265308095732759923noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6297413898275266606.post-32441760056762075672012-07-02T15:40:06.519+08:002012-07-02T15:40:06.519+08:00Re: Warrior's 4th point.
I don't have a v...Re: Warrior's 4th point.<br /><br />I don't have a very legitimate source at the moment (nor do I have time to look for it right now), but I think the narrowing of the wealth gap in the post-1985 recession had more to do with a shift in industrialization policies. <br /><br />The post-1985 recession policies had reduced our reliance on commodities as a substantial driver of growth. Jasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03517459200735545587noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6297413898275266606.post-71504145839573673412012-07-02T10:51:13.899+08:002012-07-02T10:51:13.899+08:00@warrior 231
1. The data includes all sources of ...@warrior 231<br /><br />1. The data includes all sources of income, not just wages. If there is under-reporting I would expect it to be systemic, i.e. Bumi households are as likely as Chinese or Indian households to not declare non-wage income.<br /><br />2. I'm interested in the role of commodity prices as well, though I'm beginning to think that's they were primarily a factor in thehishamhhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06265308095732759923noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6297413898275266606.post-83435324887875896532012-07-02T08:38:06.809+08:002012-07-02T08:38:06.809+08:00@anon 5.57
It depends on ownership, for which we ...@anon 5.57<br /><br />It depends on ownership, for which we don't really have the figures. But based on par values, it would be about 20%+ bumi, 40%+ Chinese, and 30% foreigners.<br /><br />@anon 1.07,<br /><br />Short answer - household income and operating surplus are part of GNI. Unfortunately, DOS data doesn't go back further than 2000, and until they provide the back-series, it wouldhishamhhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06265308095732759923noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6297413898275266606.post-23478001422152933672012-07-02T02:56:35.218+08:002012-07-02T02:56:35.218+08:00Greetings HishamH
There are a few observations wh...Greetings HishamH<br /><br />There are a few observations which I wish to make regarding the contention of narrowing inter-ethnic income inequalities and widening intra-ethnic income inequalities.<br /><br />1.with regard to the income data used in computing the GINI, how certain are we regarding accurate disclosure and verifiability. For instance, income from non-wage sources such dividends fromAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6297413898275266606.post-49696873872278898332012-07-01T13:07:09.302+08:002012-07-01T13:07:09.302+08:00Hisham,
ref Anon 5:57 June 29 on GNI.
Could you c...Hisham, <br />ref Anon 5:57 June 29 on GNI.<br />Could you clarify how does GNI or operating surplus factor into household income?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6297413898275266606.post-89605032648017253262012-06-29T17:57:39.115+08:002012-06-29T17:57:39.115+08:00HIS only measures income i.e wages,rentals,interes...HIS only measures income i.e wages,rentals,interest n dividends.And the total is only 50% of the GNI.So who owns the other 50%?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6297413898275266606.post-23860211087114767112012-06-29T15:41:57.843+08:002012-06-29T15:41:57.843+08:00@anon,
I've tried regressing incomes against ...@anon,<br /><br />I've tried regressing incomes against current dollar sector size - that's where I got the strange result that Chinese household incomes are a factor of agriculture sector growth. Manufacturing wasn't statistically significant. I'm not ready to give up yet though.<br /><br />With respect to income gaps, I'm more concerned about top to bottom income inequality hishamhhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06265308095732759923noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6297413898275266606.post-52345149052782812812012-06-29T15:14:40.956+08:002012-06-29T15:14:40.956+08:00If I may suggest, does it have anything to do with...If I may suggest, does it have anything to do with the revamp of civil service salary in mid 2007? It could be one of the factor along with impact of NEP and better educated workforce entering higher paying jobs.<br /><br />Sorry, i'm not economist and don't have any data to support the above. Just passing by this blog.Poobalanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10489272584658223622noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6297413898275266606.post-27557388969153542282012-06-29T15:12:37.421+08:002012-06-29T15:12:37.421+08:00Agreed. We can still chart it to GDP at current pr...Agreed. We can still chart it to GDP at current prices, and check if there is a correlation. Trending wise, manufacturing's value is also stagnating below RM200,000 million between 2007-2009. <br /><br />I think average household size is important, but without the spending pattern, specifically on assets and liabilities, we cannot really capture the wealth picture. Average household incomes Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6297413898275266606.post-34048411228774193542012-06-29T10:13:11.442+08:002012-06-29T10:13:11.442+08:00Good comments. I'm struggling trying to figure...Good comments. I'm struggling trying to figure out a way to link the evidence with the income trends. Sector size relative to GDP as a basis won't really work because they're ratios, and we need something to explain changes in the levels of incomes.<br /><br />With respect to birth rates - two problems here. One is that income is negatively correlated with fertility (higher incomes hishamhhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06265308095732759923noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6297413898275266606.post-35034629053580592552012-06-28T16:35:26.370+08:002012-06-28T16:35:26.370+08:00For the Crude Birth Rates (CBRs) and mortality rat...For the Crude Birth Rates (CBRs) and mortality rates, data are available back to the 1960s (Peninsular only-lah). The CBR for the Bumiputera started to climb since late 1970s while the others steadily declined. For the Bumiputeras, CBR reached a peak of more than 35 births per 1,000 population in the mid 1980s. After that, the declining trend is similar to that of the other races. The Chinese of Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6297413898275266606.post-27104092696716262072012-06-28T16:22:16.236+08:002012-06-28T16:22:16.236+08:00Just my two cents and some questions.
First of al...Just my two cents and some questions.<br /><br />First of all, aren't household income surveys done based on self-reported figures? That won't affect the major trends, but it will explain the peaks and valleys a little.<br /><br />Since we are talking about trends in household income here, it should be noted that the recent DOSM studies actually did the household income and expenditure Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6297413898275266606.post-83806839145587301192012-06-28T10:27:50.826+08:002012-06-28T10:27:50.826+08:00@Walla,
Thanks, I'll have a look at that.
@a...@Walla,<br /><br />Thanks, I'll have a look at that.<br /><br />@anon 9.37<br /><br />Certainly within the realm of possibility, though the World Bank figure is stock, not flow.<br /><br />Their actual baseline estimate is around 250,000 leaving from 2000-2010, of which only only about a third are in the high income category. Second, based on their research both the rate and intensity of hishamhhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06265308095732759923noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6297413898275266606.post-11602890006890073142012-06-28T09:37:28.480+08:002012-06-28T09:37:28.480+08:00One reason possible for the non-bumi income stagna...One reason possible for the non-bumi income stagnant growth post '97 is the substantial outflow of labor force (skewed to non-bumi group) who are consists of educated and higher income group. <br /><br />If I am not mistaken from the official figure (2000 till present), the number is exceed 1m and over 80% are non-bumi.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6297413898275266606.post-17529338288741540512012-06-27T18:06:28.636+08:002012-06-27T18:06:28.636+08:00hishamh,
if of any help..
http://is.gd/rZIoUahishamh,<br /><br />if of any help..<br /><br />http://is.gd/rZIoUawallahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17580252352785040456noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6297413898275266606.post-34266842579286074732012-06-27T16:35:52.648+08:002012-06-27T16:35:52.648+08:00I've got (another) hypothesis on that one, if ...I've got (another) hypothesis on that one, if we are on the China argument.<br /><br />Simply, corporate incomes are more variable than sticky wages. This would probably explain why real Chinese incomes stagnated over the 2000s relative to other ethnic groups. It's hard to comprehend that anyone will put up with stagnating real incomes when the rest of the economy is growing.Jasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03517459200735545587noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6297413898275266606.post-60144773726292613452012-06-27T16:16:32.392+08:002012-06-27T16:16:32.392+08:00Sorry, that should be "way to prove it" ...Sorry, that should be "way to prove it" not "why to prove it".hishamhhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06265308095732759923noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6297413898275266606.post-26029418786494081042012-06-27T16:14:33.458+08:002012-06-27T16:14:33.458+08:00@ANI,
For the majority of Bumi households the ans...@ANI,<br /><br />For the majority of Bumi households the answer is no...I have that data at least. Most households, especially lower income households, just don't save enough.<br /><br />@Jason<br /><br />I think you're probably right, as far as why Bumi incomes have continued to climb. Damn if I can figure out a why to prove it statistically though.<br /><br />We're also looking herehishamhhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06265308095732759923noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6297413898275266606.post-26319458938343355432012-06-27T15:45:09.728+08:002012-06-27T15:45:09.728+08:00If there is data of the operating surplus..think i...If there is data of the operating surplus..think it will show the trend of non bumis shifting from household incomes to corporate incomes.The income tax structure encourages maximisation of tax expendable "perks" which are not registered as personal income.Similarly profits are well protected frm tax via accelerated capital allowances and retained.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6297413898275266606.post-69672680755966956242012-06-27T15:37:07.027+08:002012-06-27T15:37:07.027+08:00Bumi fertility rates peaked much later than the Ch...Bumi fertility rates peaked much later than the Chinese and Indians (I think). But that's more likely true given the differences in income...Crude Birth Rates of Bumi's have always been significantly higher since the 1990s - earliest data point btw. <br /><br />The effects of this in workforce demographics won't show up until a couple of decades later.<br /><br />The sudden boost to Jasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03517459200735545587noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6297413898275266606.post-54828877732937005382012-06-27T15:23:02.260+08:002012-06-27T15:23:02.260+08:00Did/Does PNB (through amanah sahams) have any sign...Did/Does PNB (through amanah sahams) have any significant impact on Bumi income gains through the years? I'm thinking Bumis have slowly become more and more able to invest their savings over time.<br /><br />ANIAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6297413898275266606.post-53451866481389385632012-06-27T14:52:02.369+08:002012-06-27T14:52:02.369+08:00@anon 2.02
I'll take it as true then - where ...@anon 2.02<br /><br />I'll take it as true then - where did you see the data?<br /><br />@anon 2.15<br /><br />That's a possibility, though I don't think its as simple as that. From some of the data that I have, Chinese incomes are indeed more exposed to volatility and Bumi incomes have a higher portion of wages. But Indians have an even higher portion of income in wages, so the hishamhhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06265308095732759923noreply@blogger.com